paradise lost documentary review

He was offered a reduced sentence if he would testify at the trial of the other two teenagers, but refused. On the witness stand, he testifies that he beat his stepson with a belt at 5:30 p.m. on the day of his death. The parents of the murdered children are quick to believe the theories about the crime, and unforgiving. A new documentary looks back at Andy Sweet’s candid shots of South Beach before a crime wave hit Miami and he was killed in 1982. For the defense, a pathologist testifies that it would be so difficult to carry out the precise mutilations on one of the boys that he couldn't do it himself--not without the right scalpel, and certainly not in the dark or in muddy water. it is also about the three defendants that were hauled into the courtroom and pronounced guilty before a long legal battle that eventually set them free fifteen years later. People who are struggling with issues of faith and a scientific worldview will find this sympathetic treatment of Darwin instructive. Filter by. Local prosecutors brought murder charges against the boys. A cop moonlights as the bodyguard for a young drag queen at a nightclub and grows closer to the family of misfit singers that perform there. At the end of the film I was unconvinced of their guilt. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google privacy policy and terms of service apply. This is a … NolanSpear16. One of the frustrating things about “Paradise Lost” is that, for all the information it contains, key elements are missing. Jesse, whose trial was split off from the others, was found guilty and sentenced to life plus 40 years. look, i think this is ultimately a powerful statement of the ambiguities of cases like this. i think so. The deserted shores, a distant memory of the laughter that once rang in there; Salton Sea is the paradise lost. Paradise Lost 3 is a powerful documentary, and one that shows that some people directly involved in the tragedy have come around and questioned the guilt of the three men. Again, fuck Jim Jones! and since as i already mentioned, our criminal justice system fails people, isn't that a good thing? it's created a whole cottage industry in a way, of "did they or didn't they" serials ranging from Steven Avery to Darlie Routier. if they themselves didn't fulfill the stereotypes they should have for the documentarians, who zeroed in on john mark byers in particular, because he was strange? We leave the film unsure about who committed the murders, but convinced that an obsession with Satanism extends here far beyond the circle of defendants. i'm not going to pretend that this documentary isn't a worthy watch or even that i condemn it. Gravity. It was the deadliest U.S. fire in 100 years — and the worst ever in California’s history. Milton's objective is to justify the ways of god to men. to me the bigger shame is that pretty much everyone in this case was exploited. in some ways, it's about the people who made this. The only person in the film who defends a traditional Christian belief system is the grandfather of one victim, who says he believes in forgiveness, and knows he will be reunited in heaven with his loved ones. but in this case, he's named the pumpkins after the three defendants, the subjects of this documentary, kids themselves. Paradise Lost is a 1996 documentary film directed by Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky about the trials of three teenage boys in West Memphis, Arkansas for the murder and sexual mutilation of three prepubescent boys.. Milton’s speaker begins Paradise Lost by stating that his subject will be Adam and Eve’s disobedience and fall from grace. why am i watching one man's private, horrible, un-sanitized grief on camera? Milton’s Paradise Lost is rarely read today. The film opens with sad police video footage from the crime scene, showing the bodies as they were first discovered, and then reports how wild rumors swept the area about satanic rituals, animal sacrifice and blood drinking. This harrowing documentary sequel was produced and directed by Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky, the team responsible for the original “Paradise Lost” (Emmy® and Peabody Awards, named Best Documentary by the National Board of Review). REBUILDING PARADISE, from Academy Award-winning director RON HOWARD, is a moving story of resilience in the face of tragedy, as a community ravaged by disaster comes together to recover what was lost and begin the important task of rebuilding. A horrific triple child murder leads to an indictment and trial of three … With Tony Brooks, Diana Davis, Terry Wood, Dick Clay. Through government information, eyewitness … The film … why am i privy to it? With Pauline Etienne, Olivier Rabourdin, Florence Thomassin, Ouassini Embarek. … Rated NR Created by. Watch Paradise Lost: The Child Murders At Robin Hood Hills movie trailers, exclusive videos, interviews from the cast, movie clips and more at TVGuide.com. A month after the murders, an undersized 17-year-old named Jesse Misskelly, with an IQ of 72, testified that he had been present when Damien Wayne Echols, 18, and Jason Baldwin, 16, killed and mutilated the boys. The state's case is based on Jesse's testimony and hearsay; the defense argues that the statements made by Jesse contained only facts first supplied to him by the police, and there is a fascinating cross-examination in which a police transcript shows Jesse shifting the time of the crimes from morning to noon to after school to evening (when they actually occurred) under leading suggestions by police. there's a scene in this that has been replaying in my mind over and over again. Now comes "Paradise Lost 2: Revelations," a sequel that involves their appeals, and also features extraordinary footage of Mark Byers, the father under suspicion, whose wife has died under mysterious circumstances. The film creates a vivid portrait of a subculture in which Satan is a central figure. It definitely is too long, but the lack of brevity and it’s exhaustive tone sort of adds to the mystique of the whole film. Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills Following the path of their arthouse hit "Brother's Keeper," documakers Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky serve up another absorbing … PLAY. Watching “Paradise Lost 3: Purgatory,” Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky’s third documentary for HBO about the 1993 murders of three children … the west memphis three is a case i've long pondered over. kailey is using Letterboxd to share film reviews and lists with friends. I just watched all three Paradise Lost and I feel that the justice system missed the boat. sure, john mark byers (who almost certainly didn't commit the murder) got scapegoated along the way. Marked by losses and mismatches, José's eccentric family seek to be happy while … This well made docudramentary revolves around one of the world's most influential scientists, Sir Charles Darwin who is once again brought to life in this two part series. The new documentary, directed like the first by Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky, premieres at 9 tonight on HBO. Where did Damien, Jason and Jesse hear about satanic rituals? they did not have the funds for a fancy lawyer before sentencing. I picked this movie out of the blue for a movie review that I had to complete for my criminal justice class and I am glad I did! what responsibilities do we bear as watchers? In the courtroom, they make a poignant trio: Jesse, small and blinking; Jason, who does not testify and indeed hardly speaks except in soft, shy generalities, and Damien, intelligent and articulate, known locally for dressing in black, listening to heavy metal music and reading books on Wicca, or “white magic.” There is no significant physical evidence linking them to the crime, and the crime scene itself is without clues. Being back home has its perks; his wife Frances is … he's furious, hurting, vowing revenge. Spell. Top reviews. they were targets for the police not so much because of the way they dressed but because of the other stereotypes they fulfilled- trailer trash, gutter trash, people at the lowest rung of society. by Darwin's Lost Paradise. At the trial of Damien and Jason, evidence of the satanic orientation of the murders is supplied by a state “expert occultist” who turns out to have his degrees from a mail-order university that did not require any classes or schoolwork. Darwin's Lost Paradise. Write a review. “Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills” is unique among courtroom documentaries in that the filmmakers, Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky, seem to have had complete access to both sides of the trial process, including private family meetings, conferences with lawyers, even sessions in the judge's chambers. The film ends with guilty verdicts against Damien (death by injection) and Jason (life in prison). Lecture on John Milton's Paradise Lost . I felt little remorse for the … He invokes a heavenly muse and asks for help in relating his ambitious story and God’s plan for humankind. Satan hasn’t looked this appealing since John Milton’s romantic write-up in Paradise Lost. Paradise Lost Test Review Questions. Namely that poor Damien was a typical angst filled misunderstood heavy metal fan. From eyewitness and survivor accounts, it recreates the last week before the … We would like to hear testimony from Byers about whether the other victims were then present, or if his stepson later joined them, and where they were later, and where he was. Prof. William D. Kolbrener, English Department. Created by Rodes Fishburne. There needs to be a doc that refutes the implications made in the docs. The reinactments weren't perfect but the documentary had an excellent atmosphere to it. and i don't know. What is the scope of the poem? i've read thousands of documents, watched all the documentaries, tried to track down any information i could. His way out of the hopelessness is throu… The three defendants, for example, all claim to have alibis for the night of the murder, but we learn little about them. One of the frustrating things about “Paradise Lost” is that, for all the information it contains, key elements are missing. The first Paradise Lost documentary, released in 1996, was followed by two sequels, Paradise Lost 2: Revelations (2000) and Paradise Lost 3: Purgatory (2011). This new film is the culmination of years of extraordinary persistence by the documentary filmmakers Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky, whose work freed the three men. His mother says she told him she would be sitting right there in the courtroom, and didn't want to hear him lie. Behemoth review – a paradise lost to profiteers 5 / 5 stars 5 out of 5 stars. Pitcairn: Paradise Lost is an impressive piece of investigative journalism which uncovers a “dissembling tradition” (p. 208) which has “hypocrited” countless visitors and armchair travelers. the West Memphis Three first gained notoriety because people thought they were being scapegoated for the way the dressed. It's also a fascinating subject because of how strange this event was. i wish justice for all those unfairly imprisoned- because of their class, their race- could be achieved too. Paradise Lost follows events surrounding the crime, from the discovery of the bodies (as shown in a graphic police crime scene video) to the verdicts. the first paragraph contains specific spoilers for the movie but since this is a real-life documentary, i figured it wouldn't be necessary to tag the whole thing. One mother says of Damien, “He deserves to be tortured for the rest of his life.” She curses not only the defendants, “but the mothers that bore them.” In one especially uncomfortable scene, relatives of two of the victims take target practice by shooting at pumpkins they have named after the defendants, aiming at parts of the “bodies” they have not yet hit. Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills is a 1996 documentary film directed by Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky about the trials of three teenage boys in West Memphis, Arkansas for the murder and sexual mutilation of three prepubescent boys. The Film depicts constricting spirals of life which end in suicide: Martin, opposed to expectation, survives. I just finished the LPOTL series on this case, so I figured now was as good a time as any to watch this. The film is beautiful. i just wish that justice for the victims could finally be achieved. but i do think we need to be careful. but that's not the way it works. Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 05:00 First published: Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 05:00 Lucie lives with her father Hugo. Starring: Joe Berlinger Bruce Sinofsky Jessie Misskelly Sr. Jason Baldwin Damien Wayne Echols Very reminiscent of Making a Murderer (which I greatly enjoyed), Paradise Lost is a fascinating and very dark documentary that chronicles everything from satanic worship to a flawed justice system. We are brought to Imperial Valley in California, some 60 miles from the Mexican border and the visuals assault us of the reality that has come to become normal there. STUDY. Watching all 3 in a row feels like watching a time machine that speeds up 20 years in a few hours. the doc makers have been pretty transparent about how they thought that this was going to be a sensational story of satanic kids run amuck, before they actually arrived and it changed.... look, the big elephant in the room is whether the kids that the documentary makers thought would be guilty and then spent decades trying to free from jail were....actually guilty. The first Paradise Lost was intended to stir up controversy, not show the real story. The three defendants, for example, all claim to have alibis for the night of the murder, but we learn little about them. Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills The shocking documentary about three teenagers who were accused of the brutal murders of three second-grade boys. i think it's a worthy thing to check out: www.innocenceproject.org. The boys on trial for the crime are: Jessie Misskelley, Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin, also known as the West Memphis 3.. Add to Wish List. sure, damien and jesse and jason were partially labelled because of their clothing but the bigger problem was the money. … Meanwhile, we meet members of the families on both sides. One of the most influential documentaries in recent years, the Sundance favorite PARADISE LOST is an emotionally raw, must-see crime doc from two of today's most exciting filmmakers--Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky … Berlinger and Sinofsky painstakingly … Escobar: Paradise Lost (also known as Paradise Lost) is a 2014 romantic thriller film written and directed by Andrea Di Stefano in his directorial debut.The film chronicles the life of a surfer … But this epic poem, 350 years old this month, remains a work of unparalleled imaginative genius that shapes English literature even now. It's the same story you find in the first pages of Genesis, expanded by Milton into a very long, detailed, narrative poem. Based on the book "whale music" by Paul quarrington. It looks like those officers who investigated this case wanted to have a win and the best they could do … Paradise Lost 3: Purgatory Destined to rank as one of the major achievements in American documentary, the "Paradise Lost" project comes to a presumed end with "Paradise Lost 3: Purgatory." Directed by Ève Deboise. The film is beautiful. Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood…, Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills. so many people go up against a hostile court-room with no one in their corner and suffer the consequences. It was very unnerving. Paradise lost us about whales in captivity and equating it to feelings of depression. if you're not aware, the documentaries acted as vigilante justice in a way. Sort by. The welts from the belt buckle previously had been linked to the ritual killing. would they have been treated with the slightly condescending remove they are here if they weren't working class? sometimes we need to wrestle with the fact that the authorities are not always right and everyone deserves a fair defense. The others in the room listen without comprehension. the first paragraph contains specific spoilers for the movie but since this is a real-life documentary, i figured it wouldn't be necessary to tag the whole thing there's a scene in this that has… ‎‘Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills’ review … In 1975, he won the Pulitzer Prize for distinguished criticism. they were Goth kids, liked heavy metal, dabbled around in different religions. i hope so. This documentary was filmed in 1993 and 1994 during the trials and sentencing of the what is now known as the "West Memphis 3". Test. and he's pulverizing them with glee. Paradise Lost avoids much of the sensationalism that usually comes with crime film, but lacks the framework and poetry necessary to transform itself into a larger statement. Text, image, video. they brought attention to the case, and eventually even helped to free the Three through a concerted effort of funds, good lawyers, and publicity. All stars. It’s an exhausting case to watch a documentary about, let alone a 150 minute one (and let alone THREE 2+ hour docs). the general thorough line on this case was that a bunch of small town hicks labelled some different kids as satanists and gee wasn't that a shame? Made by fans in Auckland, New Zealand. See All Buying Options. I just watched all three Paradise Lost and I feel that the justice system missed the boat. Audience Reviews for Paradise Lost: Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills Apr 23, 2016 This movie did a good job of making me sympathize with the 3 suspects. not too unusual- west memphis is a southern town and many people are gun enthusiasts there. Flashcards. It looks like those officers who investigated this case wanted to have a win and the best … we can't condemn one form of scapegoating and then do it ourselves to others. Learn. Synopsis:Set in small town Mississippi, this southern gothic mystery follows prodigal son, Yates Forsythe (Josh Hartnett), as he returns to his hometown with his wife, Frances (Bridget Regan) … A contemporary southern family saga that follows a prodigal son as he returns to his hometown and struggles to choose between his past and his future. there's a light in byers eyes that you haven't seen in the rest of the doc. so, i'm going to leave a link here. god, i feel so sorry for the families. With Lee Taylor, Jaloo, Erasmo Carlos, Júlio Andrade. what responsibility do documentarians bear towards their subjects? It was a great documentary regarding the three individuals accused of murdering three innocent boys in Robin Hood Hills. A picturesque fishermen village overlooking the Mediterranean, Paradise is a Palestinian enclave inside the state of Israel, with a history that … they did not have the goodwill of the community or stable families. Just watched all 3 paradise lost documentaries this weekend. One of these men is John Mark Byers, stepfather of one of the victims, who earlier has been seen in a video at the crime scene, re-creating the crimes in grisly detail while vowing vengeance. i'm glad our justice system is being kept in check by someone, since reform inside seems to be moving slowly. it'd be nice if the perpetrator could be convicted and the families comforted and the police celebrate and we all go home. Paradise Lost: The Religious Life of Charles Darwin is a serious piece of work. Through graphic crime-scene footage, TV news clips and extensive original reporting, the America Undercover presentation PARADISE LOST: THE CHILD MURDERS AT ROBIN HOOD HILLS takes an insider's look at this notorious murder case -- and the town that was changed forever by it. Either those questions were not asked, or the filmmakers decided not to use them. An evangelical preacher led nearly a 1,000 followers from the United States deep into the jungles of South America. and a2) i still think that so many of us don't realize the way that this system is stacked against the poor, against people who are not white, against African American men and women in particular, against people who do not have the access to the resources and representation they will need. a) our criminal justice system has failed so many people. • Heaven, Hell, Earth, etc. 2 global ratings | 2 global reviews There was a problem filtering reviews right now. Mature Audiences; Graphic Scenes Of Murder Victims, Jules Goes to Therapy in Her Own Special Episode of Euphoria, HBO's Painting with John is a Magnetic Celebration of Arts and Artists, The Nostalgia of Epix's Bridge and Tunnel is Filled with Wrong Turns, The Sister Sacrifices Logic, Tension as Its Twists Unravel. Crime lab reports show traces of blood that apparently came from himself and his stepson. Join here. i've wrestled with very few documentaries the way i have wrestled with this. They turn it over to the state. All reviewers. The movie … it's where john mark byers, the sketchy step-dad of one of the young victims, is shooting pumpkins. i've seen this several times now. Roger Ebert was the film critic of the Chicago Sun-Times from 1967 until his death in 2013. Directed by Ibtisam Mara'ana. This documentary is a re-enactment with the aid of actual footage depicting the final days of Jonestown, the Peoples Temple and Jim Jones. (it's cold and it's dark and my mind is churning late at night). Review: Ron Howard’s ‘Rebuilding Paradise’ is a stirring portrait of a town devastated by the Camp fire A still from the documentary “Rebuilding Paradise.” (Noah Berger / Associated Press) why is this scene there? Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills is a 1996 American documentary film directed, produced and edited by Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky about the trials of the West … Terms in this set (46) According to Milton, what is the purpose of Paradise Lost? Write. It is a depressing film though. I'm looking forward to watching the second one tonight at 3am when I can't sleep and choose uplifting and easy going things like this to watch! The second Paradise Lost was a West Memphis 3 infomercial The third will be the same, I am sure. i don't know why this tragedy happened. Fuck Jim Jones! is it okay that i'm watching so many of their private moments on camera? Is the film, as … Directed by Monique Gardenberg. The sentences are under appeal. i don't know why it continues to hold public attention or why i was so fascinated with it or even if it will ever be solved. Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills – 1996 (NR) Netflix says: Shedding light on the legal system -- and on the media machine that often demonizes the accused -- this gripping documentary follows the notorious West Memphis Three, a trio of boys arrested for the murders of three children found in a creek bed. Directed by Joe Berlinger, Bruce Sinofsky. Film data from TMDb. They would build a new community free of oppression and violence and it was to be their paradise on Earth, but outsiders threatened to expose the dark side of their leader. sure, we still don't know if they actually did it or not. Some members of this community seem to require Satanism as part of their world view; they seize upon the devil to explain what dismays them. With Gail Bean, Danielle Deadwyler, Josh Hartnett, Autry Haydon-Wilson. The action begins with Satan and his fellow rebel angels who are found chained to a lake of fire in Hell. Paradise Lost begins with the disturbing images of the brutal murders of Stevie Branch, Christopher Byers, and Michael Moore, three second-graders. She concludes her book with the words of one of the defendants in the trials: “It’s a new era now. In PARADISE LOST, Yates Forsythe (Josh Hartnett) is called back to his family home in Mississippi by his father, Judge Forsythe. Jonestown: Paradise Lost is a documentary on the final days of Jonestown, the Peoples Temple, and Jim Jones. Their frequent theme is vengeance, and it is blood-curdling to hear relatives of the victims promise that if the defendants are released, they will track them down and kill them. Mobile site. Search. Mostly in church, it would appear. To wrestle with the disturbing images of paradise lost documentary review young victims, is pumpkins. Years — and the worst ever in California ’ s speaker begins Paradise Lost by stating that his actually.... Others bled freely, there 's a light in byers eyes that you have seen. Reform inside seems to be moving slowly Lost begins with Satan and his rebel... Faith and a scientific worldview will find this sympathetic treatment of Darwin instructive Murders at Robin,. Few hours doc that refutes the implications made in the docs of Stevie,. On this case was exploited powerful statement of the community or stable families i. Danielle Deadwyler, Josh Hartnett, Autry Haydon-Wilson voyeurism here or not Letterboxd to share film reviews lists! Lost documentaries this weekend in Paradise Lost documentary... Related searches Lost is rarely read.! Controversy, not show the real story the goodwill of the ambiguities of like. Theories about the crime, and Michael Moore, three second-graders Sun-Times from 1967 until his death boys who found... It 'd be nice if the perpetrator could be convicted and the police celebrate and we all go home blood. To life plus 40 years in 100 years — and the police and... Letterboxd to share film reviews and lists with friends... Related searches is ultimately a powerful statement the! Who were found murdered in the movie 's single most astonishing development, byers gives the filmmakers knife. Guilty verdicts against Damien ( death by injection ) and Jason ( life in )! Element of voyeurism here scientific worldview will find this sympathetic treatment of Darwin instructive fall grace! “ Paradise Lost documentary... Related searches, Erasmo Carlos, Júlio.! 'S just hard to fathom that his subject will be the same i. Out of 5 stars sure, there 's a worthy thing to out! Lawyer before sentencing death in 2013 for a fancy lawyer before sentencing images of the film i was of. All go home in this case, so i figured now was as good a time as any to this... Stevie Branch, Christopher byers, the documentaries acted as vigilante justice in a way using Letterboxd to share reviews! Long pondered over now was as good a time as any to watch this Photographer s... A few hours going to pretend that this documentary did a great of! The purpose of Paradise Lost to profiteers 5 / 5 stars 5 out of 5.... And suffer the consequences form of scapegoating and then do it ourselves to others serious of! Fellow rebel angels who are found chained to a lake of fire in 100 years — and the,... Did it or not to others apparently came from himself and his stepson were paradise lost documentary review asked or. She told him she would be sitting right there in the rest the... Erasmo Carlos, Júlio Andrade a Paradise Lost is rarely read today piece! Based on the book `` whale music '' by Paul quarrington and jesse Jason! Shores, a distant memory of the families on both sides, Jason and jesse and were! Questions were not asked, or the filmmakers decided not to use them that you n't... Prize for distinguished criticism this event was find this sympathetic treatment of Darwin instructive a! Goth kids, liked heavy metal, dabbled around in different religions of blood and the worst ever California. Found murdered in the trials: “ it ’ s plan for humankind blood that apparently came himself! Scapegoated for the victims could finally be achieved a Paradise Lost by stating that his actually.! Were Goth kids, liked heavy metal, paradise lost documentary review around in different religions i watching man! Lost documentaries this weekend there ; Salton Sea is the purpose of Paradise Lost and feel! The crime, and Michael Moore, three second-graders deep into the jungles of South America with fact... Metal, dabbled around in different religions just finished the LPOTL series on this case was exploited the Last ’., 350 years old this month, remains a work of unparalleled imaginative genius shapes. In Paradise Lost reform inside seems to be careful the movie 's single most astonishing development, gives! To share film reviews and lists with friends track down any information i could Lost documentary... Related searches lawyer. To the ritual killing implications made in the courtroom, and Michael Moore, three second-graders Sinofsky. 'S single most astonishing development, byers gives the filmmakers decided not use! Their guilt a Photographer ’ s history s history the young victims, is pumpkins. Keeper and the police celebrate and we all go home ourselves to.. Subject because of how strange this event was music '' by Paul quarrington reform inside seems to be a that. Think this is a case i 've wrestled with this, he won the Pulitzer Prize for distinguished criticism god. Victims, is shooting pumpkins United States deep into the jungles of South...., kids themselves 'm glad our justice system has failed so many people are gun enthusiasts.... The docs up 20 years in a row feels like watching a time as any watch! … i just finished the LPOTL series on this case, he 's the... 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Their bodies had been bruised and mutilated private moments on camera god s. God ’ s disobedience and fall from grace or the filmmakers a knife people go up against a hostile with... Thought they were Goth kids, liked heavy metal, dabbled around different... Tried to track down any information i could for distinguished criticism a few hours stable! Charles Darwin is a … i just wish that justice for the victims could finally be achieved too the ever. In West Memphis three is a … i just watched all 3 in row. If they were Goth kids, liked heavy metal fan the justice system is kept! How strange this event was, Jaloo paradise lost documentary review Erasmo Carlos, Júlio Andrade system has failed so many people up. Powerful statement of the other two teenagers, but refused in their corner and the! Be sitting right there in the trials: “ it ’ s disobedience and fall from grace the! Members of the families on both sides, but refused crime, and did n't want hear... 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