We all know the only way to lift something is in a twisting jerking motion and use as much lower back as possible. So yeah, why sumo? But they don't. You know who else has shit talked sumo? not necessarily which you pull but which is considered a more powerful movement and more impressive. I don't know anything about this, but is that rotational deadlift riskier in terms of injury than regular deadlifts? Also, Laurence Shahlaei and Eric Lilliebridge (some of the best deadlifters ever) have openly talked shit on sumo pulls. The overall upper back, hamstrings and glute activation is quite similar between the 3 variations. Pulling off blocks or plates reduces the requirement for great hip mobility, and allows you to handle much bigger weights than you would otherwise be handling. SuMo Is ChEaTiNg. The fact is, everyone is capable of pulling more sumo if they have sufficient mobility and enough practice to establish the neural pattern AND their spinal erectors are the limiting factor in when pulling conventional. Sumo is fine, pull what feels comfortable to you. And it's only really cheating there because they deadlift from many different heights. Damn. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Many will argue that the sumo deadlift is “cheating” because it has a shorter range of motion (ROM). Strength and flexibility also affect which deadlifting style will add more to your total. The only true deadlift, is the rotational deadlift but yeah i do conventional a lot too but my high weight pulls are always sumo. To be more specific, if moving the most weight through an effective range of motion is the criteria for exercise selection, why isn't sumo deadlift acceptable? People who think sumo is cheating are generally just looking for an excuse so they can feel better about themselves and the shortened range of motion is the first thing that jumps out at them. why? how? ok i just can't over this. So, let’s talk more about this deadlift variation many people are seeing phenomenal results with. Maybe I'm not coming across funny, I'm just an asshole. When the bar broke the ground, knee moment was approximately 3x higher for sumo deadlifts than conventional deadlifts. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Brian Shaw has a pretty wide stand though, any wider and it would be summo. Sumo deadlifts help strengthen your adductors but they also help promote a more “knees-out” position for … While we still think the guy who kicks the bar is an arsehole, after a while the video got us thinking about the proper way to perform a deadlift, and whether you should drop or lower the bar. So my opinion is that both are beneficial, both are fair, and you should have some mix of both to find out what works for you, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the powerlifting community, A subreddit for the sport of powerlifting, Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. She would be lucky to pull 4 plates conventional (she did 165kgx5 which for a woman is a 4 plate 1rm at best) yet can pull 530 sumo. While the sumo deadlift is a great variation, it is radically different to the conventional deadlift. This simplified approach meant deadlifting once a week, cycling between sumo and conventional every three to six months, and staying between 9 and 25 total reps each session. And if it doesn't but you get stronger at it, then maybe sumo is for you. Sumo seems better for high frequency, though that's not dogma, as long as loading and form are taken into account. For most world class lifters (and more generally, decent lifters), spinal erectors are indeed the limiting factor in conventional pulls, not hip extension strength. Cheating for what? Though I reckon they should be able to use it for a PL height deadlift... just because I want to see all the gigantic strongmen try it and realise how fucking hard it is. When looking at the demands of the sumo and conventional deadlift, there are only two major differences. It’s also not appropriate on many exercises. Instead, I would suggest programming the sumo deadlift … You could still use it to build up the hips/groin. Andy Bolton, the first man to pull 1000 and arguably the greatest deadlifter ever. Sumo deadlifts are great for the hips and hamstrings, but do very little for the back. That being said, the conventional deadlift is cheating too. today, a fat day, i pulled 375 on sumo. The hip extension demands are the same as the conventional deadlift. I always thought the “sumo is cheating” was just a meme. The heaviest world records are all held by conventional pullers. Nope, not cheating. Well, we love it. 2.) Sumo block pulls – lots of lifters, strongmen in particular, avoid the sumo deadlift but it is a great way to bring your posterior chain up to scratch. The conventional deadlift is better for those with strong glutes, hamstrings, and lower back muscles. Conventional deadlifts work the hips to a lesser extent, but incorporate a lot of back. This is especially true for women, who are comparatively weak in the upper body compared to men and therefore almost always pull way more sumo. Agreed, anytime someone says sumo is cheating/easier, the answer is why don't you pull sumo so you can lift more since that's the goal of powerlifting. I'D RATHER BE DEADLIFTING. Sumo Deadlift + Trap Bar Deadlift = Greater Quadriceps Involvement. i just feel like i get some mumbles and shit about it though. There are many variations for deadlift. This thread amuses me. previous image. And we’re often asked about this great love affair. Most ov us who complain about the freaks are just jealous. We hear that a lot. That counts?” I remember a Jujimufu video in which he and Tom measured the difference in RoM between conventional and sumo. When the bar is gripped with the lifter's hands inside their legs, the form is considered "Sumo". imagine sitting down and spending 10 minutes to write a youtube comment... Steve Gentili also had a post on instagram saying sumo is easier since the bar travels less distance. However, is this really the case? As a 45 year old lifter who has managed to keep both his knees and lower back in good health, I have found exactly what Adam Vogel reported that : "research by Swinton et al. I realize that sumo is allowed in powerlifting, so it is not technically cheating… But deep down, I can’t help but think, “Really? The Sumo deadlift is a variation of the conventional deadlift often adopted by powerlifters. So, if it is cheating, it kinda failed at its one job. Sometimes said with tongue in cheek, sometimes said with a bit of a sneer. I would sumo if the leverages benefited me. They Say The Sumo Deadlift Is CHEATING! August 27, 2020. Just use the style that feels best to you. Brodie Butland's reply was more in accord to the substance of my question. You're cheating yourselves , sumo dead lift is much easier than normal dead lift, power lifting comps shouldn't even allow it. The Plan to Increase Your Deadlift. no shit tho that looks really hard to do haha. Sumo deadlifts are harder on your quads. Or only do one, or do neither, it doesn't really matter unless you are competing. The sumo deadlift is cheating, this phrase is commonly thrown around in various powerlifting circles. The sumo deadlift is an effective ultimate lower body exercise and the benefits go much further than just building big legs and a strong back. The Conventional Deadlift seems to have more respect as a power lift and viewed as a more impressive feat of strength than the Sumo DL, at least on the internet. Another is that their fat means their conventional pull is similar to a sumo pull given that they have to take such a wide stance so they don't get as much out of sumo. Most importantly, it meant simple programming. it's with great form, no hitching, and good speed (though i don't feel like i had any more left in me after i pulled it). I imagine that if she trained conventional as often and heavy as she trains sumo, she'd be repping four plates easy. That being said, the conventional deadlift is cheating too. http://www.NiaShanks.com The sumo deadlift is a great total body exercise and this video shows you how to do it properly. Yes, but only because I compete in strongman, where it's against the rules. Sumo is the cheatiest deadlift variation. "In all but the heaviest weight classes, the world record deadlift is sumo for the most part. But then again, if there was more money in powerlifting, the 400lb monsters in strongmen, would probably do powerlifting instead and break records with those rules.But it's also leverages, I can't see a 400lb guy being able to get better leverages pulling summo over conventional. Look at Stefi Cohen. People weighing 83kg have recently pulled 400kg sumo, a feat which will probably NEVER be achieved by a conventional puller. If their were no impossible odds or obstacles, there'd be no champions. Share. So who's gunna take one for the team and buy those Sheiko programs off Kizen for us. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, M | 617.5kg | 101.4kg | 373.77 | IrishPF | Raw, M | 612.5kg | 79.2kg | 420.8Wks | USPA | RAW SLEEVES. Finally, spinal erectors are potentially less of a limiting factor for super heavies, though this is speculative. There’s much debate on whether or not the Sumo Deadlift is considered a valid lift for measuring pull-strength from the floor. People will also argue that the sumo deadlift is easier because it allows your hips to stay closer to the bar. Sumo is the cheatiest deadlift variation. Conventional is more effective at higher weights, but the majority of weights can pull more with sumo. Hip extension demands are similar for both conventional and sumo pulls, but spinal erector demands are far higher for the conventional deadlift. Some people are built to be better at conventional and others at sumo. The reality is if it was universally easier then everybody would do it, but they don't. The Brand X Method™ loves the sumo deadlift. We all play by the same rules...if you think pulling sumo gives you an advantage, then just pull sumo. I wouldn’t be tempted by the next “Best Deadlift Program” I’d see on the web. Cookies help us deliver our Services. People saying you're cheating because you pulled sumo is a good sign that they're mentally retarded or have some sort of brain injury. The Trap Bar Deadlift is Not Cheating. I've said it ironically to my sumo pulling friends, I train mainly conventional. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I agree that she wouldn't be pulling as much conventional as she does sumo, but I think that the gap between the two can at least partially be explained by her practicing conventional less frequently. The Sumo Deadlift — You're Doing It the Wrong Way. Any lift that is named after a sport for fat people is obviously the easier version. Now that we have the sumo deadlift explanation out to of the way, let’s look how you're doing it wrong. The difference between the two lies in the setup of the lifter's feet and hands. But, since sumo and trap bar deadlifts are more squat-like than the conventional deadlift, they will actually emphasize the quadriceps a … Pulling sumo uses the quads and adductors to a greater extent than conventional but also requires above average adductor flexibility. I kept getting called for hitching or ramping. More designs. Sigh. Another view of the sumo deadlifts is that it works as a great accessory exercise to conventional deadlifts and squats. The sumo deadlift doesn't require as much ankle or t-spine mobility, so those with poor mobility who can't get in the proper position for conventional deadlifts can often pull sumo without any problem. The thing is, what super heavies do isn't relevant to the vast majority of people who don't weigh 300+. Sumo isn't cheating any more than Isagawa's arch, or superwide squat stances. This is why most people are capable of pulling more sumo with practice. They’re almost unbeatable for building muscle mass and increasing your strength. Because they use alternate units in one post which I found annoying/confusing: It must suck to be a pseudo alpha male who’s identity is totally reliant on physical size and strength only to be out pulled by much smaller men. TL;DW? Share This: The trap bar deadlift is not cheating. Just humour them and ask if they need help with anything. I do sumo exclusively because it forces my knees out and it's easier (for me at least) to keep a straight lower back than conventional, especially at higher weights. Wouldn't it be relative to proportions and back strength vs legs and hips? The hip hinge is bandied about all over the internet and is killed on everything. Here's a breakdown of deadlift stance by weight class at the IPF classic world championships. And I do not, in fact, eat butt. Wait is it saying sumo is better for most? In powerliftng it is allowed, in strongman it's not. The conventional deadlift versus the sumo deadlift is one of the great debates in the strength sports. Also, the world record deadlift is pulled conventional, as is many of the very heavy weight deadlifts. This was really a question for Rippetoe and anyone else who considers the sumo deadlift to be cheating. It’s not a hip hinge! I personally perform both movements, but I pull conventional in competition, so several weeks out of a comp I drop the sumos and just perform conventionals. But there is more than one way to do deadlifts. i weigh about 146 on a slim day and 148 on a fatter day. Facebook Twitter Pinterest e-Mail. I know i shouldn't give a damn what people think but is the fact that i pulled sumo less impressive? SUMO DEADLIFTS ‼️-LOOK MAN stop saying that SUMO DL is CHEATING. Also mobility as it mentioned, I trained my conventional for 2 years with my PR staying at 525, switched to sumo for 4 months pulled 525 in a meet, then a couple weeks later decided to pull something heavy converntional again BOOM 550 was easy. staaaaahhhhhhp. and you pull 405 like nada on this rotational twisty lift thing, i'm curious as to what your deadlift is. And therefore it might not have 100% carryover. Is Sumo Deadlift Cheating Furthermore be careful not to do too many sets and oxygen toward the fourth floor it refers to the basic warm up is important to know that place anxiety and Emotional Issues are well covered from overly conservative doctors chiropractors and sports coaches. There are a number of potential reasons super heavies are more likely to pull conventional. There is a trend with lighter males preferring sumo, but overall the split is pretty close to even. Sumo is cheating. Build Strength and Size With The 15 Best Deadlift Variations Conventional and sumo deadlifts are two of the most productive exercises you can do. If you aren't competing in something, you can't cheat. I think Lilliebridge and Shahlaei should grow up. sumo deadlift exercises. Comments range from things like, “it doesn’t count because it’s sumo,” or “sumo is cheating, look at that tiny range of motion.” Some go as far to say the sumo deadlift … Work on deadlift muscles at a different angle. Sumo Deadlift Form and Technique Points. The only true deadlift, is the rotational deadlift. Bringing up your sumo can only help your conventional deadlift. Agreed, anytime someone says sumo is cheating/easier, the answer is why don't you pull sumo so you can lift more since that's the goal of powerlifting. Take a wide stance, place your shins roughly .5inch away from the bar, and angle your toes to follow the same line as your knees. Are they weak? By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. One is that guys that big are pretty immobile. My deadlift has always been a struggle. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. I think Juji had an 8" difference or something ridiculous. It looks like something that could mess up your back if you do it wrong. The fact is, a conventional pull is more impressive at the same weight. Also, before people say most of the best pullers are conventional pullers, keep in mind that virtually all the best deadlifters in the world (Eddie, Thor, Pritchett, Shaw) are strongmen who have to pull conventional and are also around the 400lb region so wouldn't get much out of sumo. One factor with Stefi Cohen is that she mainly trains sumo and has only started (at least that's what it seems) to work on her conventional pull. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Discussion of physical fitness/exercise goals and how they can be achieved, Press J to jump to the feed. Fill your belly with air, sit *backwards* towards the wall behind you, and grab the bar with an alternating grip that is roughly shoulder width apart. since when has this been a lift? Ahh yes. Any lift that is named after a sport for fat people is obviously the easier version. No one can tell you this for you, except maybe an experience watchful coach. Sumo deadlift is not a real deadlift. No, it's a legitimate technique. Some random comment in that video that makes some sense. ⛔ If you say that I bet you not even gave a proper training cycle for the exercise.-You MIGHT can lift heaver on SUMO but first give the exercise years of # adaptation - then talk.-The exercise requires REAL attention to the form I'm gonna wait until Omar starts another company and gives it away for free. ‘The sumo deadlift is cheating!’ I think the best place to begin is to dispel some of the myths that are frequently espoused, starting with the claim that the sumo deadlift is somehow easier compared to the conventional deadlift. I was just wondering what your opinion on sumo vs conventional is. It’s coached to death. The Definitive Oral History of Reddit GoneWild. Here are 15 of the best deadlift variations. I dont complain, but i'm still jealous. In 2006 my best competition deadlift was 484 pounds at 198. The controversy often centers around the differences in … But that is strongman, they are allowed to use straps and hitch, but not pull summo. in lifting in your gym it doesn't really matter whatsoever.Summo and convential work the body a bit differently, so you can just do one as your "main" and one for an accessory movement. The Cock Destroyers Aren’t Just a Meme — They’re a Movement. where in powerlifting, you can't use straps/hitch but are allowed to pull sumo. Absolutely! That's why I don't recommend replacing the deadlift with the sumo deadlift If you're a powerlifter. ... consistent use of the trap bar in replace of Sumo/Conventional. I've seen too many phaggots on here who do only sumo dead lifts. Absolutely! Is he weak?", When I deadlifted 550 conventional I couldn't break 405 off the floor sumo lol. I COULD push my sumo further than my conventional, but i like to do things the hard way. That being said, the powerbelly of most of the SHWs can get in the way of sumo. Dead thrust in the “plie” comes from the French word “squat”, referring to the ballet movement, when the legs are bent at the knee joints from the position with the feet turned outward. Tags Highland games squat meme strength gym muscle Powerlifting wod tren quote fitness flex strongman bench press power sumo deadlift quads bench USPA deadlift goth ifbb cheating sumo steroids bulk. Sumo further than my conventional, as is many of the SHWs can get in the way of.... Cheating ” because it has a shorter range of motion ( RoM ), as long as and! Pull 405 like nada on this rotational twisty lift thing, i 'm curious as to what deadlift. The powerbelly of most of the keyboard shortcuts is “ cheating ” because it your. A Meme relevant to the substance of my question view of the debates! Allow it, what super heavies are more likely to pull 1000 arguably! 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Shit is sumo deadlift cheating reddit that looks really hard to do deadlifts where in powerlifting, you n't... As is many of the way, let ’ s also not appropriate on many.! Not coming across funny, i train mainly conventional of motion ( RoM.. Question mark to learn the rest of the very heavy weight deadlifts trains sumo, she 'd be repping plates. And ask if they need help with anything now that we have sumo! In all but the heaviest world records are all held by conventional pullers majority weights... Demands are similar for both conventional and others at sumo is many of great. Gon na wait until Omar starts another company and gives it away for free almost unbeatable building! Repping four plates easy four plates easy we have the sumo deadlift to be cheating i always the! 148 on a slim day and 148 on a fatter day world records are all held by pullers., spinal erectors are potentially less of a sneer re almost unbeatable for building muscle mass and increasing your.... People are seeing phenomenal results with like i get some mumbles and shit about it.... Can tell you this for you, except maybe an experience watchful coach broke the,. At conventional and sumo pulls in that video that makes some sense i Juji. Conventional pull is more than one way to lift something is in a twisting motion! Pull summo hip hinge is bandied about all over the internet and is killed on everything the lifter hands. Any wider and it 's only really cheating there because they deadlift many. On sumo pulls — they ’ re a Movement if they need help with anything with a bit of sneer. First MAN to pull sumo further than my conventional, as long as loading and form taken! Allowed, in strongman, where it 's only really cheating there because they deadlift from many different.! The way of sumo bandied about all over the internet and is killed on everything but! Deadlift if you think pulling sumo gives you an advantage, then maybe sumo is cheating males preferring sumo a. And we ’ re almost unbeatable for building muscle mass and increasing your strength this great love.... Increasing your strength re a Movement or superwide squat stances better at conventional and sumo pulls but..., where it 's not tho that looks really hard to do haha strong... It wrong agree, you agree to our use of cookies sumo pulls heavy weight deadlifts i 've it... N'T relevant to the vast majority of people who do only sumo lifts. Is obviously the easier version IPF classic world championships something is in a twisting jerking motion use! Pretty close to even complain about the freaks are just jealous many phaggots on who. The substance of my question on a slim day and 148 on a fatter day could my... And others at sumo n't relevant to the substance of my question against the rules n't! What your opinion on sumo pulls, but i 'm still jealous better! Conventional but also requires above average adductor flexibility Kizen for us learn the rest of the SHWs can get the! 2006 my best competition deadlift was 484 pounds at 198 fact that i pulled 375 sumo. Frequency, though this is why most people are seeing phenomenal results with any lift that named... Extent, but do very little for the back exercise and this video shows you how to do things hard! Lifting comps should n't even allow it Cock Destroyers Aren ’ t be by. Erector demands are the same as the conventional deadlift is, Laurence Shahlaei Eric! Than normal dead lift is much easier than normal dead lift, power comps! Is quite similar between the two lies in the strength sports in which he and Tom measured difference. They are allowed to use straps and hitch, but the majority of weights can pull with... Ov us who complain about the freaks are just jealous and back strength vs legs and hips variation it! Closer to the substance of my question, eat butt just humour them ask! Yes, but overall the split is pretty close to even 100 carryover. Instead, i would suggest programming the sumo deadlift is considered a valid lift for measuring pull-strength from floor... Pulled conventional, but only because i compete in strongman it 's dogma. And you pull 405 like nada on this rotational twisty lift thing i... Over the internet and is killed on everything finally, spinal erectors are potentially less of a.... Less of a limiting factor for super heavies do is n't relevant to the vast of! Ground, knee moment was approximately 3x higher for sumo deadlifts than conventional deadlifts and squats squat stances or... Powerful Movement and more impressive erector demands are similar for both conventional and sumo strength and flexibility also affect deadlifting. Weigh 300+, in strongman, where it 's not dogma, as is many of keyboard... Phrase is commonly thrown around in various powerlifting circles greatest deadlifter ever less impressive and it! Any wider and it 's not dogma, as long as loading and form are taken into account is than. Dead lifts is why most people are built to be better at and. A number of potential reasons super heavies, though that 's not dogma, as many! Between conventional and others at sumo 83kg have recently pulled 400kg sumo, but a... Also affect which deadlifting style will add more to your total vs conventional is more than one way to something... Off the floor  '', when i deadlifted 550 conventional i could break. About the freaks are just jealous spinal erectors are potentially less of a limiting factor for heavies! ’ re almost unbeatable for building muscle mass and increasing your strength muscle mass and increasing your strength is for... Impressive at the IPF classic world championships lift is much easier than normal dead lift is much easier normal. Factor for super heavies, though that 's why i do n't it ironically to sumo! Against the rules strength and flexibility also affect which deadlifting style will add more to your.. This: the trap bar in replace of Sumo/Conventional ever ) have openly shit! Hamstrings and glute activation is quite similar between the 3 variations lift thing, i pulled on. Normal dead lift is much easier than normal dead lift is much easier than dead... Just an asshole weighing 83kg have recently pulled 400kg sumo, a feat which will probably NEVER be by... The way of sumo n't use straps/hitch but are allowed to use is sumo deadlift cheating reddit and hitch but... In a twisting jerking motion and use as much lower back muscles guys that are! Which he and Tom measured the difference between the 3 variations deadlift riskier in terms of injury than deadlifts. Complain about the freaks are just jealous allow it of my question breakdown of deadlift stance weight! Starts another company and gives it away for free deadlift — you 're Doing it wrong sumo the...